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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
chris elliot
EG CORP
Talocan United
45
   |
Posted - 2012.09.07 13:53:00 -
[1] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
*snip*
We would also like to reply on the comments about tech3 ships being balanced for their cost and skill requirements. This should not be a factor for balancing most EVE vessels, because it breaks the purpose of a sandbox game which offers differently shaped tools for you to use as you see fit. And that's without even saying that, with time, as your playerbase gets older and accumulate resources, entry requirements are more and more easily reached, thus resulting in everyone getting their hands on the ship that was initially restricted to a few. And before you ask, some ships, like the Navy/PIrate hulls were designed to be plain better than tech1, others, like tech2/tech3 were not. Tech2 are supposed to be specialized, and tech3 more generalized - performance gap should not be so great that you can forget about tech1 entirely.
Also, we are aware of the number of used tech3 ships in general, and how far the repercussions could go for tweaking them. We know this would be a hot discussion from our playerbase as nobody wants to see their assets changed. That is normal human reaction. We can guarantee you that no matter what happens here, we will definitely do our very best to be as diplomatic, open minded and communicative as we have been in the past to ensure we hear all ends of the arguments and annoy the less amount of people.
You're not planning on making t3's as hilariously useless for the cost as the nighthawk is currently when compared to the drake and tengu are you? (I think that's what a lot of people really want to know, not so much that you plan to change things)
If someone needs to spend about a billion isk and risk loosing skillpoints for loosing the ship it kinda should be just plain better than a command ship that only costs a quarter to half of that no? Risk vs reward and all that jazz.
Oh and on Langs earlier post, while you're giving some lovin to the Succubus, any chance you could kick a little love towards the Cruor?
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chris elliot
EG CORP
Talocan United
45
|
Posted - 2012.09.08 08:24:00 -
[2] - Quote
Apart from the loki and legion off grid boosting shenanigans I am failing to see how t3's need a nerf in the way people are clamoring for it.
What is the most basic role of a battlecruiser? To tank and deal dps for a certain cost.
What is the most basic role of a command ship? To tank better than a battlecruiser and deal a little bit better dps for the added cost
What is the most basic role of a t3? To have a really good tank, and to deal out pain at very close ranges.(Excluding tengus). For a cost much greater than that of a command ship and a battlecruiser combined.
Currently that is essentially what is happening. So why all the fuss?
Edit: The argument that they are too flexible I find largely invalidated by the fact that once you set off in one you can not go changing things on them to suddenly make them ''adapt''. Every tactic and fit has a hard counter. |
chris elliot
EG CORP
Talocan United
45
|
Posted - 2012.09.08 18:01:00 -
[3] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:Gabrielle Lamb wrote:
You mean they're OP when coupled with deadspace modules and fullsets of HG pirate implants? Most successful t3 fits I see tend to cost more then a carrier / dreadnaught does.
They're OP without deadspace mods and HG pirate implants too. Furthermore, cost is generally not a balancing issue. See RDDD Titans. -Liang
By that logic then why don't people run around in nighthawks all the time? If cost isn't really an issue then we should be rolling in them.
Opportunity cost IS an issue, but one that can be amended by making the opportunity balance out. |
chris elliot
EG CORP
Talocan United
45
|
Posted - 2012.09.09 11:01:00 -
[4] - Quote
Roime wrote:*snip* Quote:You have a RR fit as well, that will rep with deadspace medium repper as much as logi ship with large solace repper, but with little range. Please show us a Proteus that comes even remotely close to an Oneiros. For the sake of discussion, you can have unlimited budget, all the best links and wormhole effects. Quote:Still, its not OP, you say? C'mon its totally OP! The only drawbacks are the price, and the fact that you lose SP when you die. Price tag rivalling capitals, and losing SP seem to work on Tranquility as real limitations. T3 is not the best tool for every situation, and losing a T3 is in fact a big deal to most.
[Proteus, logi]
Damage Control II
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Capacitor Power Relay II
Experimental 10MN Afterburner I
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Corelum C-Type Medium Remote Armor Repair System
Corelum C-Type Medium Remote Armor Repair System
Corelum C-Type Medium Remote Armor Repair System
Corelum C-Type Medium Remote Armor Repair System
Medium Energy Transfer Array II
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Proteus Defensive - Adaptive Augmenter
Proteus Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer
Proteus Engineering - Capacitor Regeneration Matrix
Proteus Offensive - Covert Reconfiguration
Proteus Propulsion - Localized Injectors
Closest I could get. Tanks ok.. ish. But Its slower, has less repping power, shorter rep range and 5x the price tag of my oneiros. Cloak is for giggles.. Which I guess is an ok tradeoff seeing as how you are slow and cant rep much farther than the tip of your nose... and you get no drones to set on falcons.
EDIT: Also has about x2+ the sig of an oneiros. |
chris elliot
EG CORP
Talocan United
45
|
Posted - 2012.09.09 13:31:00 -
[5] - Quote
Nestara Aldent wrote:No it have more repping power than 4 large 'solace' because proteus RR subsystem gives 50% bonus to RR efficiency.
With all 5's each repper wil repair 354 hp. On its own without the bonus's it will repair 286.
With all 5's on an oneiros each repper will repair 384.
So no, it has less repping power. |
chris elliot
EG CORP
Talocan United
45
|
Posted - 2012.09.09 15:14:00 -
[6] - Quote
The role hybridization has always been lesser versions of their recon counterparts. To many people the ability to do multiple functions is the only thing that makes them appealing. Because let's be honest, if you need to spend double to triple the amount of a command ship or recon for only a marginly better amount of tank and less dps with an SP loss. You would not see many running around.
The ability to perform multiple roles validates their cost as a whole.
The only point I disagree with you on is that of the solo replacement of the falcon by the ecm tengu.
As for the black ops gangs going haywire, I am of the opinion that this may not be such a bad thing. Given the insane amount of fuel needed to move these types of ships, that and they are super expensive pinatas. |
chris elliot
EG CORP
Talocan United
45
|
Posted - 2012.09.09 15:47:00 -
[7] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:
Considering that there are massive blobs of T3s floating around in null sec? Almost certainly.
-Liang
Sh.t your right, people use them in blobs, they must be OP.
We need to nerf them so people won't blob with them anymore!!
Nerf all the tornadoes...and drakes... and tengus... and abaddons... and zealots..... and hurricanes. (They are used in blobs therefore they must be OP. )
Edit: And archons, way to many of them out there nowadays. |
chris elliot
EG CORP
Talocan United
46
|
Posted - 2012.09.10 20:15:00 -
[8] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:Asssassin X wrote:Liang Nuren wrote:Asssassin X wrote:
it's not an assumption, it's mostly fact from our part of warfare where we are always going against the blob and due to us living in wormholes we are kinda forced to use tech 3 ships because doing it in bs's just won't cut it for logistic reasons so don't try to turn an argument over tech 3 use when we do it everyday against "le blob". If the bigger blob users used tech 3 then this arguement wouldn't come up.
Drakes take low sp on mass to use while tech 3's need alot more. Tech 3 for subs and t2 fitting it like 500mil but doesn't really do any better than hacs......a tech 3 fitted 1.5bil does better than a hac but a 1.5bil hac will also do better than a scrub fit tech 3.
So how do you explain the 200+ man Tengu blobs in null sec lately? -Liang If you read what I said then I said from our part of warfare. We have not come up against a 200man tengu blob and if we did we wouldn't fight it anyway as 200 is just too much even for us :) I'm mostly pointing out that it's a fallacy to assume that only you have access to Shiny Fleet and the blob is always in T1 fit **** fits. If the effectiveness is there, it won't be terribly long before they're flying it too. -Liang
Having shiny fleets doesn't seem to keep people like -A- from loosing tons of them to drakes and maelstroms though. Having them, and using them properly however is what seems to make peoples butthurt-o-meter go up. |
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